45 | The Strategy Behind Your Website Copy with Krista Walsh
Do you want to create your next website "right" this time, from the ground up, now that your business is solidified? Maybe you struggle to see the point of view of your ideal client because you're so close to the business, or you remember what it was like to DIY your first website's copy (time-consuming, overwhelming, dragged on forever).
If this is you, or anyone with a website, you should listen to this and take notes.
Krista Walsh is an SEO website copywriter & website strategist. She writes website content, creates wireframes, and does SEO keyword research to get websites found online so business owners book more ideal clients.
Krista holds nothing back and shares a wealth of insight that will inspire you to go back and at least check on your headlines 😉
Make sure you book a call to continue the conversation with Krista and download her free DIY website audit checklist! 👇🏻
Episode Transcript
Dani: Welcome to the podcast Krista. Can you share with our guest a little bit about like who you are and what you do?
Krista: Yeah, thanks Danny. I am Krista. I'm an SEO website copywriter. So for those of you who don't know what all those jargony terms mean, it is, I write the content for your website pages so that you show up in Google search results and then your website does the rest of the work to close the deal so that when you end up on those discovery calls with people, They are aligned fits who are ready to hire someone exactly like you.
Dani: Yes. Kind of like what we're doing a little bit right now, a little bit of a discovery call so well done. And you know, it's a so interesting because we know that we should have SEO on our website, but I know like that term alone overwhelms people.
Dani: And so I love that you bring that in there for sure. And what would you say is kind of that first step when you're working with someone and you're really trying to find, that SEO component, like what did you [00:01:00] look for
Krista: first? Yeah, so that's a great question. I would say the very first thing I look for is to see if you're already ranking for any search terms.
Krista: Sometimes even if you haven't optimized your website, if you've been around for a long enough time, like you will just have started organically ranking for terms related to what you do. So if that's the case, I wanna find out what those are and then actually do the work of optimizing your site for them.
Krista: And you can get really, really quick results that way just by like putting in the foundational work. We do that and it's, you're, you're not ranking for anything, which is totally okay. Then I would actually go through and do keyword research to figure out what are your ideal clients Googling for, related to what you do.
Krista: And then using those terms to then optimize the copy and the metadata and some of the backend stuff on your site.
Dani: And I feel sometimes people feel like, well I am just like one of the million people who, who do this. You know, social media management, like I am one of many, right?
Dani: Yeah , but finding those like key words that you rank [00:02:00] for and going backwards and thinking , what are people searching for? So that is so good. Who are the ideal people that you work with? Who are those ideal clients? Or do you just kind of have a broad,
Krista: general audience that you work with? Yeah, great question. So I work with services companies. Most of them are professional services companies that have scaled a little bit, so they have a, a small team that's like replicating their service.
Krista: And yeah, that, that would, that's who I work with.
Dani: Okay. Awesome. Awesome. I recently actually saw, you posted something about introverts, how oftentimes like coffee could feel so loud and I just would love for you to dip into that a minute because I think that oftentimes we think of copy, we do have to be very extroverted and like grab people's attention. , what is that big takeaway for someone who would be like an introverted entrepreneur?
Krista: Yeah, so that's something I love talking about just because it's like a personal experience thing for me as an introvert and just [00:03:00] temperamentally, not all introverts are this way for sure, but temperamentally, I'm more on like the earnest, serious side of things.
Krista: Like I am not very enthusiastic or bubbly by temperament. And one of the things as a copywriter, and I'm sure you've seen this too, Danny, in the social media marketing space, is that most of the, people who online business famous, they tend to have these brand voices and vibes that are very kind of larger than life.
Krista: Very bold. Maybe they're super quirky, super bubbly, maybe super edgy. Just like one extreme or the other. And I kept looking around and thinking , I don't resonate with any of this, and do I have to fake this voice? And it, it felt kind of, Reminiscent of my experience as like a younger version of myself, maybe like late teens entering the world and feeling I felt a lot of the pressure in life in general to fake a extroverted, bigger personality than I had because I saw that being rewarded more often.
Krista: So [00:04:00] it felt reminiscent of that, and that kind of made me angry. And so I started talking on podcasts in my content about like, Hey, like we don't actually have to do that. Just like you don't have to do that in life. You don't have to do that in your content. You can just like write how you wanna write, you can talk how you wanna talk.
Krista: So in terms of like how to do that? Well, my biggest tip is like, don't fake it if you don't want to. My second thing would be, you know, a lot of us who identify with the type of person I'm talking about don't really wanna be in the spotlight. Like, don't really want to talk about ourselves a ton.
Krista: So to. Instead of like focusing on like, what is my voice? How, what, how am I gonna come across? Which can feel like a lot of pressure, especially when there aren't a ton of examples that resonate with you would be to, you know, Put the focus back on your audience. I think a lot of introverts do this naturally in conversation.
Krista: Instead of talking about yourself, you listen to the other person and ask them questions, and it's the same thing in your content. [00:05:00] You can get into their heads and just like speak to what they are thinking about and needing to hear. Instead of focusing so much on your brand.
Dani: I love that because we, we can get in this route where we have to, we think we have to copy like the, the people that you see who are famous and really have a huge platform out there.
Dani: And like the truth be told is that you wanna attract the people who are gonna wanna work with you as well. And there are people who wanna work with you and they, I, you know, they don't want someone to. Extroverted and you know, like extrovert people are a ton of fun. But I, I think it is so important that, especially on your website, that who they see on that website is matching who they'll work for on the other, other end. .
Krista: Absolutely. Yeah. And I would say for a lot of the clients that I work with their clients are, Either like B2B or just like corporate audiences and a [00:06:00] super over the top brand voice isn't appropriate for their space that they're in. It feels jarring for people. Not a, I've seen, I've seen brands do it where they, where they go that route and it is successful, so there's absolutely no reason you can't do it.
Krista: But I'm also just giving permission for people who like don't want to focus on the voice as much and they want to Come across how they actually are, which is more of like, Straightforward. Here's what I mean. I'm saying what I mean, I'm being honest and I'm not throwing in a tons of jokes and asides all the time.
Dani: . So a lot of my listeners are also kind of in that, I don't know, do it yourself space. Like they might be moving into that, that zone where they're gonna be thinking of hiring a operator for their website. So they're, they're definitely here too, but they're also kind of in that part where they're like, how do I know if my.
Dani: Actually has good copier or not. Cause I think you look get really confused on what does that actually mean. So if you wanted, I think you have also have a handout, so do you wanna talk about that first and kind of move [00:07:00] into
Krista: unpacking that a bit? Yeah, so that's a great question. Yeah, so the, the resource that you're mentioning is called my DIY Website Audit Checklist, and this walks you through for your homepage, your services page, and your about page and your contact page.
Krista: The elements to include on each page in terms of copy and even like user experience and things like that. And I find that can be really helpful for people who are like, I just need some like tangible like things to check off to make sure that I am doing it right, quote unquote
Dani: that is awesome. So that'll definitely be in the show notes for everybody to grab. So like, what would be like that first thing, let's just talk about like that front page, right? Like when you first get on the website, like what would be a, a number one thing that you think people should like look
Krista: out for?
Krista: Yeah, so this goes definitely for the homepage, but also for every single page on your website. One of the biggest mistakes I see people who have done their own website copy on their current site is a lack of meaningful [00:08:00] headlines, so meaningful being the operative word there. So I see a lot of websites that are like, their, their main headline is like, welcome.
Krista: Or just the page title, on your about page, your main headline is about, or like about me or I see a lot of like, hi, I'm Krista, and that's your whole headline on your homepage or any page. Right? And the reason I think this is a mistake is because your headlines are the most important real estate on your site, really on any piece of copy right, that you're reading.
Krista: They are there to. Catch people who are skimming, which are most of us, and they're there to ensure that we want to read more, like actually read the body copy. Or maybe if we don't read the body copy, we still get the main idea. Right? So I recommend people do kind of like a newspaper style headline, newspapers.
Krista: We'll put the whole point of the story into their headline, Man bites dog or whatever. Whatever the headline is, it's the whole story. And if you wanna read more details, you can. [00:09:00] Yeah. So that's how I would encourage people to approach headlines. So don't use like a throwaway headline, like the page title.
Krista: Don't use something that doesn't actually tell the reader anything, like, welcome or hello or anything like that. Actually think about, what is this page going to tell people and then shorten it as much as possible and make that the. Oh,
Dani: I really like that because you're basically asking people to be clear on what that is gonna deliver.
Dani: So have that clarity in there. It makes you think of subject lines for emails too. I wanna know what this says because I kind of have a glimpse of what's gonna be about already in the subject line.
Krista: So, yeah, exactly. The subject line is like the headline.
Krista: I'm an.
Dani: What if you struggle with it just being too long? Because I feel like sometimes people have like a hard time making things concise. Would you recommend a sub-headline at that point or just try to make it as concise as possible?
Krista: Oh yeah. I also struggle with this.
Krista: I would say practically my advice would be just write it how you wanna write it. Like focus on here's the message I wanna get [00:10:00] across in this headline or this piece of body copy or whatever. Write it how you wanna write it, like how it comes out so that it comes across the message. Let it rest and then go back at least a day later with. Editing cap on, specifically through the lens of let me be ruthless about cutting out words. This is what I do with first drafts. I will write how I wanna write it, making sure the messages are there. First. I let it rest for at least 24 hours and then a couple of days each day I'll come back with a different lens as like an editor and one of the lenses is definitely like scanning for wordiness and making sure I can cut anything out that doesn't need to be.
Krista: I think having that breathing time and having that intention with your editing lens can be really helpful for helping you do it. Yeah. Other practical tips? Yes. You could break it into a sub-headline. You could take out pronouns if you don't need them. sometimes I'll read a headline that's like, I help founders do this, or whatever.
Krista: And you could actually probably just change it to like, After [00:11:00] I help founders do like, take all of that out maybe, and just start with what is the actual thing that you're helping them do? And that's the headline for example.
Dani: I totally agree with giving that breathing room because I think sometimes we have this pressure that, or, or we have this image that copywriters just write and it's Good.
Dani: The first sitting. No. Right. It's so not true. And I have the same thing when I, I write the captions for social media, I let myself write it and I come back to it later and I go through it and check it and, and I like the, the visual, putting a different lens. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Having a different intention when you're reading it that.
Dani: So helpful and give yourself time. Like don't t try to write copy in a day, right?
Krista: Mm-hmm. So, or write in, in a day, but then like have lots of other days to go back and edit it, you know? Exactly. Oh, that's so
Dani: good. Okay. And then what about like, what other parts of like the website copy would you say is a number one mistake that people don't think about?
Krista: [00:12:00] Yeah. So, This is more like a website strategy perspective, but something I see a lot websites that are thought of like a choose your own Adventure website where it's like, Okay, I have my homepage and the first section is about me, and then there's a link to my about page.
Krista: And the next section is like, here's my blog and like a link to three different blog posts. And then the next section is , here are all my services and a link to each service. And then the next section is like, here's my podcast and a link to that. And it's just you're asking people, like there are like seven different calls to actions and you're expecting people just to like randomly choose their own adventure through your site.
Krista: This is okay. It's not the end of the world, but if you're going to think strategically about your website, if you were selling a service probably the goal of your website is to sell that service and to get aligned clients on sales calls, discovery calls with you. So think about your whole site through that lens, how do I get people to qualify themselves or disqualify themselves?
Krista: And if they are [00:13:00] qualified, then they book a call with me. So In terms of strategy, from a homepage, where do you want people to go next? Sometimes, depending on what your service is like, maybe it's highly custom. Maybe you only do one thing right away from the homepage. You want people to book a call.
Krista: Sometimes you have multiple services for multiple audiences, so you want to sort people into what service is appropriate for them, and then go to that individual page. It just, sometimes you want people, you have like one service, but you have broken it into different pages to really describe how it works.
Krista: Cuz it's a very high end luxury service. So from the homepage you want them to go to it, how it works, page. So just sort of mapping out that user journey for yourself and understanding where do I want people to go next and then, Structuring your website pages and the copy that you write to guide people toward that next right action can feel really supportive for people navigating your site and not overwhelming like, oh my God, this girl does so many things and I don't know which thing is right for me.
Krista: I don't, should I read this [00:14:00] blog first? Should I call her? Like, what should I do? It's just very clear. That is so good.
Dani: And I think I'm thinking about my. I think I mentioned to you before,, I'm getting it redone soon, but I believe every CTA is book a call, which is making me think what, they're probably not ready when they first get on that, that webpage to just book a call and it's probably after they look at the services and Yeah, that is.
Dani: That is really good because you wanna make it fairly easy for them to navigate, but also guide them to where they should go next. I also like to talk about the about page because I, I think the about page can get a little strange where you know, we, we kind of create our about page and we don't actually use that prime real estate to reach our audience
Dani: so , what is your tip about the about me pages?
Krista: So again, that meaningful headline is huge with about page. This is probably the most common [00:15:00] page I see it on is a title that's like About Me or about Krista or like, hi, I'm Krista, or something like that. That can absolutely be a sub-headline, if you're like, or an H two or somewhere if you're like actually introducing your bio.
Krista: But for that main headline I encourage people to think about, why do you go to someone's about page, next time you're looking for a service provider to hire or to buy a resource from or something. Just think about like, if you ever go over their about page, what are you looking for?
Krista: I find for myself, the reason I visit about pages is to get a. Really clear through line of what someone offers. You know, I, I want this, here's what I do, here's what I offer, here's what I stand for. Kind of clear, like nut graph almost. The second reason would be, I wanna see who this person is, right?
Krista: Because maybe Their business name is different from their name and like, they haven't really introduced themselves yet. So I wanna understand who I'd actually be talking to. Your reasons might be different, but in general, like using a headline to answer those questions. So I like about [00:16:00] page headlines that are just the really clear , here's what I do, here's what I stand for, type of headlines.
Krista: Mm-hmm. So they're sort of they're like mission headlines, but a little bit not. The formal language of a formal mission statement, cuz that'd be really boring and kind of hard to wrap head around.
Dani: Right, right. We probably wouldn't know what our formal mission statement would be for some of us.
Dani: Right.
Krista: Yeah. Right. Well some people make them in like in a business plan or something, and I don't know if that needs to be your headline. Right.
Dani: Right. Okay. I think this is like a refreshing way of saying it, because. I, I've always heard start your about page and it's about them first. It's about them, and then you whittle down to like your interesting stuff.
Dani: And so I think it's really cool that you're saying basically like what would be a unique thing that would just show your values, who you are, what you do, kind of right off the bat.
Krista: In a way it is about them in the sense that, I'm encouraging you to write the headline through the lens of like, what do you think they are on that page for?
Krista: And then [00:17:00] giving it to them. Mm-hmm. But I don't, I mean, yeah, I've seen that strategy before where you're literally let's talk about you first, and then you go into their pain points again. And I, I'm not against that. I don't tend to write about pages that way just cuz I don't. Personally think that's what I'm seeking when I'm on and about page and I want to serve my audience.
Krista: Right.
Dani: Yeah. It, it is true. I guess I, I, I'm gonna go visit some about pages and really see what brings me to that page. Like what am I looking for? Cause that's a really good experiment. Cause I don't think we think about that too much. We just run autopilot or just. I'm checking things out.
Krista: Right? Yeah. Yeah. There's a reason. There's a reason behind like the autopilot though. Yeah. But it does take some slowing down your brain waves to figure out what that is.
Dani: Is there anything about, anything else that you just think would be really good for the audience to like, think about when it comes to their website?
Krista: Make sure you have copy above the fold if your template allows it. You know, if you're DIYing using a [00:18:00] template or maybe you're choosing a template, try to go for one that has some, like at least a headline above the fold. So that means you go to a website on your browser before you scroll at all.
Krista: Is there any copy on the site or is it just a beautiful image? Is it just a beautiful moving graphic? And the reason is you just wanna give people something to grab onto instead of this, , okay, just kind of explore my site and , and, and figure it out on your own. We always wanna be taking people by the hand and guiding them through this information journey that leads them to the ultimate goal, which is their goal too.
Krista: It's not just like you wanting them to book a call with you. They're on your site if they're a potential client because they're trying to decide if they should. So helping them make that decision is always really
Dani: key. So tell me a little bit if someone were to call you and we're interested looking at a copywriter for their website, what would those next steps be?
Dani: What should they know before contacting you? Can you kind of walk us through that process?
Krista: Yeah, so I would say you're in a good place to hire [00:19:00] an a done for you expert, whether this is for your website, whether this is like a copywriter like me or a website designer. If you are not doing your first website, This is either your second, your third, your fourth, or whatever you are profitable business.
Krista: And most importantly, you're really solid on who you serve and what your offers are. Because you don't wanna put all this work into a new site and then realize , oh, that's wrong, and you have to redo it. So I would, I mean, if you have been in this business for a couple of years, this is your second, third foresight, you're probably there.
Krista: But I just wanna reiterate that if you're DIYing. The best thing you can do is diy. Like don't, don't stress, like you don't need to hire a professional yet. So if you are looking to hire a professional, the first step would be to book a call. It's free. It's no obligation call. We just would chat through your needs.
Krista: I would see if I'm a good fit for what you're looking for and vice versa. And then I would send you a proposal outlining the scope of the project and the goals of the project. You can choose to [00:20:00] accept the proposal if you think it's a good fit. There would be like a start date in there too. And then we would move forward.
Krista: And the, the very first thing I would send you would be a questionnaire really, really brief. I. Then we would do a longer call where I would like ask you some answer, like ask you about your answers in the questionnaire. I really don't wanna make you have to type out a ton, so that's why the questionnaire is super short and we're mostly just chatting.
Krista: And then the only other thing I would need from you to get started would be the, would be introductions or contact information of up to six past clients. This is really important so that I can interview them and we're not asking you to like guess about how they're feeling or what their point of view is, where we're actually just asking them and making sure the messages will resonate.
Dani: Yeah, I heard even just having the exact way they phrase it could be surprising. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Because you realize, oh, I didn't know they thought that, or they got that from me. Do you recommend doing the copy then the design or the design of the copy? Because I think sometimes that could be what, [00:21:00] what
Krista: comes first?
Krista: Yeah, fantastic question because most people get this wrong unless you have done this before. But copy absolutely first. So this is important, part of my work is also, Information architecture for the site and the website strategy because people don't consume websites the way you consume a novel where it's just like each word, then the next word, then the next word, like we're skimming around.
Krista: So it's part of my work is understanding that I've done a lot of like user experience training to understand that and know like how things should be laid out for conversions. So if you do the design first, the designer is designing totally blind. They're just like, I have no idea what the purpose of this page is, or what it's going to say.
Krista: And they just sort of like create that. In a vacuum, and then you have to go in and like squeeze the copy into the spaces and it's just not ideal. Many, many, many designers will not do that, and you'll actually hire them and then they'll be like, okay, but I need your copy by this date. And then people get into this pickle where [00:22:00] now they're scrambling, so they've got two weeks to write all of their website copy on their own or try to find a copywriter who can do it in that short time.
Krista: And it's a nightmare. So absolutely do the copy first, whether you're doing it yourself or whether you're hiring somebody. Do that part first and then go find a designer. Okay.
Dani: That is such a good point. You probably get those frantic calls sometimes. Yeah. Like, I need copy. I need copy like tomorrow.
Dani: Yeah. Right. And you wanna have the time to be able do it. Right. So that is
Krista: good. Yeah, because it's so important. I mean, the design is also, is equally as important. Like there's no hierarchy here, it's just. It's such a shame when one or the other like drags down the other piece and then you've put all this work, possibly money, a lot of time into your site and then it doesn't actually, you know, deliver a return on investment because one or the other is missing.
Dani: . And then everybody, the ways to connect with Christo's gonna be in their show notes below, so you can kind of connect with her there. For sure. Before we [00:23:00] wrap up though, I have a question. I would love to hear, what is inspiring
Krista: you right now? Yeah, I would say what's inspiring me right now is, Reading.
Krista: So I am a big reader. I actually run a book club. That's mostly like non-fiction stuff, but I also, I'm actually not reading anything fiction right now, but I love both. And so that, that's really inspiring for me as a writer. And also just to get me out of my head, outta my business zone and like really plugged into another thing that has nothing to do with my day-to-day feels inspiring and refreshing and energizing. It is good
Dani: to have something that is just separate from everything. So, what are you reading right now? It could be your book club or mm-hmm. Just what's, what's open right now?
Krista: Yeah, so I'm reading two books right now. One of them is called Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism.
Krista: I dunno if you've heard of that. Oh, yes. Have you?
Dani: I think I have. Yeah, I think so. She's
Krista: a Los Angeles author. [00:24:00] So I feel like living in Los Angeles, it's like a huge Zeke IY book. Couple last year, this year. But that is a non-fiction book all about like how language creates culty cultures in Yeah, like actual cults, but then also in like just cult-ish stuff like Like CrossFit and these groups that are like really on fire.
Krista: I don't know.
Dani: CrossFit's a good example. I feel like, I feel like I've, I've heard some funny reels. I think about cult CrossFit back in the day of just when you go to your first CrossFit thing, it's just like, oh my gosh.
Krista: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, and the author is like a linguist.
Krista: So it's really interesting me as somebody who, is a writer , who deals in words, so to speak. That one's been actually like really interesting.
Dani: I have certain seasons where I read fiction and non-fiction. Mm-hmm. So, me too. I think, yeah, I think I said before the podcast where it's like, with fiction, I have to have the bandwidth to get sucked in.
Dani: [00:25:00] Mm. And just kinda, I don't know, once that rising action hits, I'm, I'm done. I'm like, I, who needs to sleep? I'm just gonna keep reading. So yeah. I love books too. Where can people find you online and where do you hang out the most on social media?
Krista: Yeah. So you can find me on my website.
Krista: Krista Walsh, copywriter. My email's on there if you wanna reach out directly on social media. I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram. So Instagram is at Krista Walsh, copywriter. LinkedIn is my name. Krista Walsh, obviously. I'll probably give you those links, Danny, if. Especially LinkedIn. It might be easier to find me just with the link cuz I'm sure there are other Krista Welsh people on LinkedIn.
Krista: And then yeah, I mentioned the website audit checklist. That's for free. That'll get you on my email list, which is every Wednesday I send an email in as part of like a bigger series. The next series I'm doing is how to write the content for each page of your website. So like each week you'll get homepage [00:26:00] services page.
Krista: About Paige. So that's gonna be really huge. If you wanna join that list, I'd happy to have you there.
Dani: I love that you used your email list was series. I don't think I've ever heard that before. I'm sure it's not completely novel, but That is such a cool idea and you just kind of start, it's almost like a podcast.
Dani: Like, yeah, here's a series, an email. I love it. So thank you so much and just to remind our guest that the goal is that you also go into the show notes and you book a coffee chat. But Krista the. Five coffee chats and two discovery calls and beyond. I just remind everyone to continue that conversation and if anything, if anything, connect with Krista online, so.
Dani: Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on to Discovery
Krista: call. Yay. Thank you, Danny.
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