43 | How to Lead a Discovery Call with Karen Laos
It’s finally happening! The Discovery Call Podcast is talking about… discovery calls! And I couldn’t think of a better person to do this with than my wonderful and brilliant client: Karen Laos.
Karen Laos is a Communication Expert and Confidence Cultivator, leveraging 25 years in the boardroom and speaking on the world’s most coveted stages, such as Google and NASA to transform missed opportunities into wins.
She is fiercely committed to her mission of eradicating self-doubt in 10 million women by giving them practical strategies to ask for what they want in the boardroom and beyond.
As mentioned in the episode, she was on my dream Trello board to be on my podcast, so this full-circle moment means a lot.
Listen and find out how you can confidently show up for your next discovery call!
Episode Transcript
Dani: [00:00:00] welcome Karen. Can you introduce yourself to my audience and just tell 'em like what do you do and who you.
Karen: Yes, sure. Well, I always like to start by saying I'm a follower of dreams at heart because I left my hometown of Minnesota to move to San Francisco and. Basically packed up a bunch of stuff in the trunk of my car and got to San Francisco. I never left, and I've been here for 27 years now. So that's a little bit about me personally, but I would say that my heart is for women over 40, in particular in the corporate world, to help them overcome self-doubt and speak up and do it with confidence.
Karen: and I'm specifically focusing on speaking engagements, and my dream is to be, well, my, my mission, and I believe my calling is to reach 10 million women in the next 10 years, and my dream around that is to be the featured speaker at Chase Stadium in San F.[00:01:00] Can't think of anything better than a, a bunch of women together feeling empowered to speak up and have the tools to know how to do it.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Yeah. Oh my goodness. It's, it's gonna happen. I'm gonna be in there
audioKarenLaos11907200475: thank you. Yes, I believe it too. I keep saying it and I, I, it's bit better happen. I feel, I started thinking the other day, maybe a bunch of my friends will get together and donate money. be there one day.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: It would be fantastic. And this is a unique, uh, interview for me because I'm actually interviewing one of my clients and before you even got on here, I reflected back on the fact that I had you on, uh, a list of my Trello board of like ideal guest. And apparently I wasn't even thinking big enough to think ideal clients.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: So that's something they always tell you, like make a list of your ideal. , but I just thought about ideal guest and then you became a client . So it was just fantastic. I'm like, oh, wow. Thank you. So, , it's, it's just a blessing to have you here
audioKarenLaos11907200475: thank you. Well, I [00:02:00] feel honored that I was on your Trello board and that this can happen and, and isn't it? How, how fun that the dream or not dream. That sounds a little dramatic maybe, but , you having me on your troll board happen after the unexpected of becoming a client. So
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: I know now I manage your cell boards. It's fantastic how that worked out.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: That's right. Oh my gosh. I'm glad you do because I do not wanna look at that thing.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: It's so true. It's always like a monumental moment when you're like, I, I'm in your cell report. I'm looking at stuff, Danny, I should get to cold stars. So it's awesome. . Well, one of the biggest reasons, like my, my podcast is literally called Discovery Calls. And oftentimes when business owners go into business, They, they're really good what they do, but they don't necessarily have a marketing background or a sales background, and all of a sudden they're thrusted into this world of discovery calls.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: They have to learn how to sell [00:03:00] themselves on a call to someone who's interested, but they don't really know each other. And I really feel like you have such a powerful perspective and can give my audience such help with this. So, First of all , what would be an example of something not to do on a discovery call?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: So the first thing is to talk all about yourself,
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Yes.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: and that we, you know, we laugh at that, and yet I'm amazed. How often people do this and what I see a lot is people, and I get it, people are trying to prove themselves. So we go straight to information. And I would say, you know, one of the things that you, a, you mentioned in the prep work for me to be on here today is to think about one of the biggest myths.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: And I'd say that one of the biggest myths with discovery calls is that we think we have to sell. , if we [00:04:00] simply start with connecting, that selling will happen naturally. And when we are not attached to the outcome. I, I personally believe that that is one of the best gifts that you could give yourself because you're not gonna come across as desperate or needy.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: And I see that a lot when I've been there before too, when I've really wanted a client. And, you know, you can, you can, people can smell that. it's fascinating. I think just energetically, even on a call, whether it's a Zoom call or just a regular phone call, people can, can feel that. And I think that way of being about you in that moment, that it doesn't serve you or the person on the other phone or on the, on the other.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Exactly. You kinda had to flip this idea of I'm not here to sell myself because I think we come to this idea, I have to list all the accolades. I have to, you know, really prove myself in this call. I have like 30 [00:05:00] minutes , and in reality you just kind of feel in all that air was just too much talking and too much talk about yourself.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: So if you're not gonna talk about. What, what do we talk about then?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Well, let's, let's start. You wanna do a role play
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah, let's do.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: good? Okay. So let's imagine that I'm trying to sell you some. Just I can imagine. I, I would never sell like this. So this is so fascinating. It's actually kind of fun. If I were imagining that I'm trying to sell you and this is what not to do, Hey, Danny, I'm so excited to talk with you today, and I wanna tell you all about my services because you're gonna love them so much and everything that I have to offer, you're gonna love because it's exactly what you need.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: So I'm gonna start by talking about the three things that most people really love about the services that I provide. And then we're gonna go on from. [00:06:00] Okay, so the first one is, okay, let's just stop. First of all, what was wrong with that ? Let's break that down.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: I, there was a lot of assumptions on what I was actually looking for. That's the first thing that struck me.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Yeah. And how did it feel?
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: It it, yeah, it definitely felt like. If we work together, what confidence do I have that you're actually gonna listen to me?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Yeah, exactly. I truly, sincerely believe that people don't just wake up saying, wow, I really hope that I can do a bad sales call today, or discovery call, or I'm gonna go and just pitch myself. But I do think that it comes from a place of the trying to prove our credibility. And it's also fascinating to me that, to your point, if we just stopped and listened more, and listened longer, That will cover so many issues because if you get the other person to talk, that's what you can take more [00:07:00] information from.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: And so just to answer your question, which I know you know the answer to this already, like if we're, if we're talking all about our, our about ourselves, and what do we do? Well, we ask questions and we check for clarification. But I will say that I personally love to start any call with somebody of how can I be of service today?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Or What would you like to get from this call? Or what, what are you hoping? Like how, what? What was another one that I say, how can I be most helpful
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: mm-hmm.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: So just immediately starting with a question can make big difference.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Right. And I think it would really set you apart from so many other calls, right? And
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: That point alone that you mentioned of like, how can I be a service today and all of that, that has been an epiphany for me because I'm thinking, what a powerful way to start a call, right? You're given the opportunity to express their needs and what they're looking for, and you can adjust and pivot accordingly.[00:08:00]
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Or even just know, maybe I'm not the right fit, but maybe I could find someone who is right. Like that is just a powerful question.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Yeah, it absolutely is. And it's, and one thing that I would say too, if I'm addressing people in the room that are going, yeah, but if I'm just constantly asking questions, then when do I get to talk? So that's another thing that, because you don't want it to just look like all you're doing is asking questions, you have to know when to address that.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Focus on which way to go. And for some of your audience, I know some people listening might not feel totally confident of doing that. Well, what do I say? And that's why I always recommend that when you're prepping in advance, think about what you do, really know what is your expertise, and be the guide for the person. The challenger sale concept was made so popular because it was so different when that whole concept and book came out because it's that idea of [00:09:00] we have to educate our clients. And in fact, I was in the call with the client today that's got some really major issues on their team. And the initial plan was we were gonna, I was gonna interview all the different people and then we were gonna do an offsite, and now I'm think, An offsite is actually gonna make things worse.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: The point that I wanna make there is that I had to stand my ground and say, based on my experience and the interviews that I've done, I have to say, an offsite is not your answer.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: And my recommendation is something different because until these other issues get addressed, an offsite is not gonna be the right decision. So it's this ability to have confidence around what the person is saying or even not saying. To in Intuit, essentially of, okay, what would I recommend here?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Especially if they're not really sure, because they may say a few things. Then you've gotta grab whatever they've said and [00:10:00] say, here's what I would recommend, or Here are two packages that I would recommend. How does that sound to you,
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Mm-hmm.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: does that land with you? That's one of my favorite phrase.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: That sentence of this is what I recommend that automatically establish yourself as a. You know, you know what you're talking about there, so that is awesome.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: The other thing I wanted to add too is that, I feel like this phone call today was such a good example for what we're talking about because I was sure that I did not wanna do an offsite, that that was also gonna ruin my credibility probably with this team of just going through the motions.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: But the, the other thing that we wanna think about, Is something I completely just forgot. . It was really good and I completely forgot what that was. Oh my God. So we'll have to either come back to or say that's gonna be in the show notes.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: I love it. Well, Lisa, [00:11:00] you, you know, I'm podcast editor, so we're, we're good. Oh my goodness. I'm glad that it doesn't just happen to me, so this is just very comforting.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: The key is to sound confident. Whatever you do, even if
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Even if you're lost, you'd confidently be lost.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Exactly. So if, if you're, I mean, I could, I think that you don't need to edit that out, but if, if we were gonna start over, I would. I would. I. I think where I was going with that was making the recommendation with confidence, but also coming from a place of, I don't know exactly what to do next, but I'm gonna take a couple days to think about it.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Now that might not be in a discovery call situation, but sometimes it could be where you have a potential client where you really wanna work with them, but you're not, it's so not a typical situation that you do or you serve or you go. Let me think about that. I'd really love to work with you and I'm confident I can help [00:12:00] you, but I wanna think about the best package for you.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: So can I get back to you tomorrow with an idea after I've had some time to process? I think people really appreciate that.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Yeah, people have anxiety going to discovery calls of what if they ask me as something that I don't have an answer to? And so you literally just gave us a way to still hold that credibility, but give that space to really take that. Question to heart and put something together.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Well, I think it's important to remember that, like you just said, just reiterating that we don't have to have the answers in that moment and. I also think people respect us more and even feel more, you know, more special, if that's even the right way to say it. They, they feel special or more attuned to more cared for.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: When we say, you know, hold on, this is actually what I'm thinking and, or I'm not sure what is the best thing, but there is, you know, [00:13:00] I mean, we could talk so much. I feel like this could go so long, but it's also the confidence in the way that we say. So that's also really important, right? To not be hesitant and unsure.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Mm-hmm. , and that was actually gonna go in that direction. So that was really well done. I was thinking oftentimes we come off a certain way, right? We wanna come off confident, but there might be certain things that we're doing that is just not translating well. So what are some things that we could do to prepare for a discovery call that we can come off confident?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I, I just hung up with a client, and this is a good reminder. She has to have a difficult conversation and she hadn't considered, she had a thought, again, assumption, kind of like where we started earlier about how it would go. And I said, what other responses might she have? suddenly she kind of went, It opened up her mind to, oh, she might have other responses.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: So what [00:14:00] I would recommend as a tip is to anticipate three to five different responses as an exercise, and then either determine on your own how you would answer those or bounce the ideas off of a friend or of a coach to be as prepared as possible. Because if you're already a little bit nervous or anxious, you wanna make sure that you.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Anticipated a number of scenarios. Maybe not all possible scenarios, but even if you come up with, Hey, here's three different ways this person could respond. And then the other thing you can do, which is incredibly helpful, is to do an actual role play with someone of, okay, let's, let's walk through this.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: and then see how you do. Because I love role plays, especially because our subconscious mind doesn't know the difference in each one, what's real and what's not. So once you've practiced it with somebody, then you're in that real situation. Your brain says, oh, we've been here before, and you automatically have more confidence,[00:15:00]
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Is excellent. I am a chronic talk to myself person, which is, which is like con I, yeah. I'm confessing a little, a little crazy to everyone. But what's funny is, is that I role play conversations very naturally in my head to the point where I'll explore all these different angles. And I joked with my husband before I was like, some conversations we have, it's not the first time I had them. He's like, that's not fair. I'm like, I know. That's why I'm so fast sometimes. Like, oh, I've, I've had this conversation before. And it's just, it's funny and, you know, use it carefully. You don't have to be, you know, it can go a little weird, but at the same time, like preparing for an interview of just, Hey, like, yeah, look, look at different angles.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: How about showing up on camera? Okay, so lot of people are doing Zoom, right? So like any tips about how to carry yourself
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Yes, absolutely. Well, in general, I cannot not talk about voice, so I know [00:16:00] that isn't the visual, but. We have to remember to come across with projection and strength in our voice so that it feels like this person is taking us somewhere. And if you think about when you're the recipient of any situation, if a person sounds, uh, you know, um, hesitant and, uh, I'm unsure, I mean, you're gonna go, well, I don't have confidence in this person, so I've gotta talk about voice even just a little bit to make sure that you project.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: And that you pause and you end your sentences with a period, not a comma or the that thing we call up speak. So that that will be a game changer right there. And a way to find out if you do any of that is to record yourself and listen back. And obviously that is a really key thing to do. So from a visual perspective though, the very basic thing is that you wanna make sure that you are centrally framed.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Or centrally framed in the frame. I don't know that you can use two the same words in the same sentence, but ultimately [00:17:00] make sure that you don't have a bunch of, you know, what they call white space above your head, or that you're evenly in the frame and that you're close enough that people can see you and be careful about using gestures that are in the camera.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: But then what happens is, and for those of you that are watching, watching this, you, I'm putting my hands in front of the webcam. . And yet the thing that I also see is sometimes people tone down their gestures so much that they don't even use them anymore. And that's also a problem because then our energy doesn't come through the way it would when we're naturally speaking.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: And a big part of this is also being your conversational self and showing your energy. The last thing I will say on this is probably the most important, and that is to look just about an inch below the webcam, because if we're looking where we're tempted to, which is usually at ourselves or the guest or whoever else is on there, they're usually not in the place that we should be looking [00:18:00] because of course it's not about our experience, it's about how the person on the other side of that computer.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Experiences you feel like you're actually looking at them. Yeah.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: yes, I've ever since I heard that, I notice it everywhere. Like I'll even watch like sh watch people like share the recordings of their podcast. and they're like, so not looking at the camera. And I'm like, oh man, I see it everywhere now. And like, I think before I was like, oh yeah, you know, you're just on Zoom and you wanna see everyone's faces.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: But now I'm like, no, you, you know, you're on Zoom, you know you are here. You can even drag your little face beneath the camera if you want. And make it small and just stare at yourself if you really need to.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Well, it's, it's funny, all the little hacks too, because the other thing I've started doing just in the last year when there is more than two people, so there's a, you know, you have a bigger gallery view, I will physically click and drag the screen to where the [00:19:00] person is. So if there's like five in a row at the top, I will move that per the person who's talking toward that.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: So that I. Do what I need to do, but also look at them, so
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Yes, I
audioKarenLaos11907200475: that gives me a better experience too. Yeah, you do the same thing.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Yes. How you do that is awesome. Well, at the end of every interview, I always, this is question, and my question is, what is inspiring you right now?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Yes. Well, I'm inspired by a trip that I'm gonna take next year, and it's not a vacation , but it's gonna feel like it. Because I am going to the first time to do a very fun speaking engagement in Minnesota. So I'm looking forward to that. And why does that matter? People might be going Minnesota, like what are you, why are you inspired for that?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: But I am originally from Minnesota, and to be able to work in my hometown doing what I love most is [00:20:00] very exciting to me. So that's, that's what I will say.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: That is so exciting. Yes. To able to go in your hometown and just be all who you are and do what you are so great at. So that is great. So everyone in Minnesota, take note. Find out when this is happening.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: That's right. That's right. It might not be the Chase Center, but we're getting there one step at a time.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Yes.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: I feel so lame that I don't have something fun outside of work. Isn't that? That's sad. I'm sitting there going, what am I inspired about? I'm usually inspired about food, particularly sweets.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Oh my goodness. Like yes. I cannot have too many sweets in the house cause I will consume them. It's, it's a thing, so that is awesome. Well, I know where people can find you online, but where can people find you online, Karen?
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Yes, absolutely. I am@karenlaos.com. That's probably the best place to [00:21:00] go. And my last name is spelled l a o s, and I have a podcast called Ignite Your Confidence with Karen Laos. And I always forget to say, I have a book and it's called Trust Your Own Voice, growing Your Influence Through Confident Communication, and all of that you can find on my website and my social links are all there as well.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Yes, and I can attest, the book is amazing. I got my first behind the scenes view of a book launch and I also do your, your marketing. So I, I read your book a lot actually. I, I go through there, I'm like, all right, what goodness can I write about this month? So it's, it's fantastic. I think everyone should have it, so thank you.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Thanks, Danny. That's so nice of you to say. I'm glad and I'm glad it's helped as well, so that's great.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: Awesome.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: the point.
audioDanielleHamlet21907200475: yes, that is the point. Well, thank you so much, Karen. It was awesome having you on.
audioKarenLaos11907200475: Thank you.
Meet Your Host, Dani Hamlet
A small business owner, social media and marketing pro, who is on a mission to help YOU grow your network through listening to podcasts. Reach out to Dani, or her guests, at any time! That’s what she’s all about.
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